The Mocker Rule

Discussion in 'Other Topics' started by Bucky, Jun 18, 2017.

  1. Bucky

    Bucky Well-Known Member

    I intend to unilaterally adopt the following policy for my interactions on the Dinofarm Forums:

    I will not respond to any posts that insult a member of the current conversation, or to any follow-up posts by the same person, except to invoke the Mocker Rule.

    I will do this regardless of whether anyone else does, but it will be more effective if other people follow suit.

    Q) If you won't respond, does that mean I win the argument?
    A) No, think of it as a technical foul that nullifies the rest of the points you made in that post.

    Q) What if I'm insulting @keithburgun, not you?
    A) You're still insulting a participant; it triggers the Mocker Rule.

    Q) Can I call the Mocker Rule on you too?
    A) Yes. I endeavor to keep my own posts civil and calling me out when I slip helps me do that.

    Q) You called the Mocker Rule on me; what should I do now?
    A) Retract the offending statement by editing the post. Also, apologize to the people you insulted. At that point the insult has been fixed and we can continue the conversation.

    Q) Why is it called the Mocker Rule?
    A) The name comes from some Hebrew proverbs e.g. "anyone who rebukes a mocker will get an insult in return" and "Throw out the mocker, and fighting goes too"*

    Q) What about indirect insults?
    A) They still count in general; do not engage in derogatory speculation about another poster's motivations, parentage or mental health. Also, don't aim blanket insults at groups that a poster happens to be a member of.

    Q) Does that mean I can't criticize your ideas?
    A) Insulting an argument is fine, as long as you don't follow it up with "anyone who believes this must..."

    Q) Can I insult people not involved in the conversation without triggering the Mocker Rule?
    A) Yes, but it's discouraged; in particular, you need to be careful if that person later joins the conversation.

    Q) If you don't invoke the Mocker Rule, does that mean my post was fine?
    A) No, I might be silently ignoring it.

    *Proverbs 9:7 and 22:10
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2017
  2. SwiftSpear

    SwiftSpear Active Member

    What would invoking the mocker rule look like? (assuming this post was an insult)
  3. Bucky

    Bucky Well-Known Member

    "I'm not going to reply to post #2 due to the Mocker Rule."


    "I'm calling the Mocker Rule on Swiftspear."

    occasionally adding "for saying to assume his post was an insult" if it's not clear to everyone which piece was an insult.
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2017
  4. SwiftSpear

    SwiftSpear Active Member

    Cool, for the record I'm following this principle as well to the best of my ability from now on out. I'm tired of shaming people for being needlessly mean.
  5. garcia1000

    garcia1000 Guest

    Mr. Asdfjkl the touch typing student sucks!!
  6. Kdansky

    Kdansky Well-Known Member

    Turns out one can be a nasty piece of shit, and then say that getting called out is mockery, because clearly being called a nasty piece of shit is an insult.

    Does not seem to be a good solution. To make the obvious example: If Hitler rises from the grave, and writes a ten paragraph essay about how Jews are animals, we can't call him out on it. Neither can we call out racism, sexism or other discrimination, because being called any of that can be considered an insult.

    Makes me think the only people profiting from this rule are horrible people.
  7. Lemon

    Lemon Well-Known Member

    [I'm deleting this post in an effort to reduce hostility]
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2017
  8. Kdansky

    Kdansky Well-Known Member

    I was literally making an example! You're seeing ghosts!

    If this rule is used, then it turns out that one can be a nasty piece of shit, and then say that getting called out is mockery, because clearly being called a nasty piece of shit is an insult.

    This is what I said, with clarifying introduction now. Better? It is just logical reasoning.

    I made a Hitler example precisely to demonstrate that a rule that allows Hitler to post racist crap and be immune to criticism is not a good rule. You'd think that rules about politeness would at least be sensible in the extreme cases.
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2017
  9. Bucky

    Bucky Well-Known Member

    If someone makes a post that contains an insult towards all women, that very likely results in a Mocker Rule invocation.

    I don't have a good solution to insults towards a group (e.g. Jews) where it's not clear whether any participants are members of that group. If we had full buy-in, then any Jews on the forum could invoke it themselves.

    Otherwise, refer to the FAQ:

  10. Lemon

    Lemon Well-Known Member

    [I'm deleting this post in an effort to reduce hostility]
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2017
    Redless likes this.
  11. keithburgun

    keithburgun Administrator, Lead Designer Staff Member

    I think we all have to chill a little. And I think I would say that recently it has seemed a little bit like those on my political side have been more aggressive and arguably toxic-ish. I already pointed out that out to ALavaVatChild when he was a little much and Kdansky I think you could pull it back a little bit.

    With that said, Kdansky, I understand what you mean. Some views are reprehensible and on some level it's understandable to treat them with hostility. But I think that no matter what, if you're talking to someone on a forum, you should not be hostile, or at least minimize the amount of hostility.

    If the choice was something like "lose Lemon or shut down the politics forum", I would definitely do the latter. We were already considering doing it. Maybe it's time to talk about this again?
  12. Bucky

    Bucky Well-Known Member

    I should clarify the "who benefits" point.

    The first person to benefit from a Mocker Rule invocation is the poster who doesn't get a nasty response from me.
    Then the whole community benefits from a less toxic forum.

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