1. keithburgun

    keithburgun Administrator, Lead Designer Staff Member

    I have not played Overwatch. Currently not particularly interested because I don't expect much from Blizzard at this point and because it's an FPS, but I understand a lot of other people are interested in it. Given how interested people are in it and how it is likely to be popular and successful regardless of its level of game design merits, it seems like it would be a good idea for me to sit down and seriously play it at some point, just so I at least know what I'm talking about on it.

    Anyway, here is a discussion thread for the game. Discuss!
     
  2. Nachtfischer

    Nachtfischer Well-Known Member

    Personally I haven't had the time to check out the open beta but I'm moderately interested to play the game once it's out. It seems like with all the skills it'll be not just a shooter, but something a little more interesting at least. And because it's Blizzard it'll have a solid player base and long-term support by default.

    Kdansky post for completeness:
     
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  3. Eji1700

    Eji1700 Well-Known Member

    Blizzard feels afraid to innovate.

    I think overwatch is good, but it's really just Hots + team fortress, which given blizzards clout is a safe bet, and given what you're capable of in those games, I feel like overwtach is the "mild" version of both.

    They're filling a niche for a casual shooter that TF2 has sat on for much too long, but I don't really feel any desire to play the game as it currently exists simply because it looks kinda boring.
     
  4. keithburgun

    keithburgun Administrator, Lead Designer Staff Member

    Wait is this game really $60.00 ? Jeez. Seems like a weird thing for a casual shooter. Guess I won't actually try it out, unless there's a sale or something at some point. Not spending 60 dollars on something like this.
     
  5. Nachtfischer

    Nachtfischer Well-Known Member

    So they extended the open beta for another day and I had the chance to put a few hours into it today. Sadly I can confirm that it's indeed kinda boring. It's an "FPS++", a shooter with a few skills (some more, many less interesting ones) on top. But nothing more really. It's still an FPS that for the most part plays just like any other FPS. In other words, if you've played video games for 20 years, there probably won't be much interesting stuff to discover at all.
     
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  6. Eji1700

    Eji1700 Well-Known Member

    I feel it's more than that. Most the games I play have "cool" moments. When you managed to position right as a spy you get to annihilate their team, setting up well as an engineer and then moving can lead to a whole bunch of fun plays, Pyro lets you just destroy a group in the right setting, etc. I feel like blizzards foray into the genre is just so much more "meh". You get one "do cool stuff" button, but really they payoff for playing right is just watching numbers go down faster.
     
  7. Platyp

    Platyp Well-Known Member

    The game is $40. They've done a terrible job explaining that it's $40 for the base game and $60 for the version with extra skins and stuff.

    I've played it a bit and watched it a bit more. It's just not interesting at all, imo. It has the TF2/GW2 problem as a spectator sport where kills don't really mean much. In dotalikes, if you get a kill, it translates into some sort of direct advantage: sometimes extra farming time, sometimes a tower, sometimes a map objective. In CS, if you get a kill, it's both a monetary advantage and a direct man advantage since you don't respawn until the next round. In this game, you get what? A few yards on the payload? A few % on the capture point? Yeah you can organize pushes and get teamwipes, but you can't spend the whole game coordinating ultimates to get a teamwipe, so the game ends up feeling like an arena shooter for a lot of the time.

    Big pluses though: the character designs are phenomenal (both visually and voice acting), and the locations look fantastic. I liked the soundtrack too. It felt instantly iconic to me. All around a beautiful looking game.
     
  8. Lemon

    Lemon Well-Known Member

    I was flat out refusing to play the open beta, but my friend forced me to do it.

    I'm very glad he did, all my expectations were blown away. This game brings feels a lot like a MOBA, with clearly defined character roles and cooldown abilities. For a shooter, there's a huge amount of strategy because some characters support each other and some also counter each other. You can switch at any point to try and fill gaps in your team. For example you might want a character that can fly to the back lines and take out their support.

    The core mechanic is aiming, like any shooter, but not all characters need precise aim. Some have beam weapons that work in a wide range or even lock on to targets. Some ultimate moves perform automatic headshots.

    Being the most tactical shooter around isn't a high bar, but Overwatch reaches that bar.
     
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  9. Nachtfischer

    Nachtfischer Well-Known Member

    To me that's probably the most interesting aspect about the game. It completely gets rid of these awful solo queue situations of "Well, guess our team comp just doesn't work at all, another half hour wasted", and also "Oh, their comp just randomly counters ours perfectly...". Also it adds a layer of depth to the game, where you need to adapt to the situations by picking (more) well-suited chars. It seems like this hero-switching rule could be adapted by MOBAs, and especially Heroes of the Storm, as well, at least for solo queue modes.
     
  10. keithburgun

    keithburgun Administrator, Lead Designer Staff Member

    @Lemon a lot of people have recommended Overwatch to me but you are the FIRST to actually say anything substantive about the ruleset that is supposed to be good.

    @Nachtfischer , is your opinion warming on it?
     
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  11. Nachtfischer

    Nachtfischer Well-Known Member

    A little bit I guess? I had the impression that it's just this gimmicky shooter with a ton of emphasis on characters. You know, it's basically vestigial RPG stuff. "I AM this gorilla scientists dude with bombs!" or whatever. But I read up some more about how they really emphasized the importance of hero switching. They see it as a super important rule that's here to stay, even though a lot of people didn't like it ("Dude, I'm not identifying with my character. There's no set team comp like in MOBAs, that sucks."). And I think they're onto something with the design there.

    Obviously it's still a shooter and ultimately that won't make it super interesting on a moment-to-moment basis. But treating the characters more like different kinds of "pawns" rather than, well, characters, where you have to pick the right one for the given situation on the map (which progressively changes in all the modes they've designed) and enemy lineup actually is pretty interesting. I think "hero picking" could almost be a core mechanism here. Like the shooting is more like the execution parts in LoL, whereas hero picking is more on the level of lane pushing?
     
  12. ratxt1

    ratxt1 Well-Known Member

    My initial impression is this does not seem worth 40. Also agree with the sentiment that this game is a much worse spectator sport than CS:GO (though no shooter really every comes close).
     
  13. keithburgun

    keithburgun Administrator, Lead Designer Staff Member

    Yeah, but how deep could that possibly be? Like there is not really much granularity/resolution there - how could one be "really, REALLY good" at hero picking? I feel like for it to be a core mechanism there would have to be way more of it (at least than I'm imagining, not having had played the game).

    I am very surprised that the game is premium and not free to play. I wonder what their thinking was on that.
     
  14. Lemon

    Lemon Well-Known Member

    I think they want to avoid unbalancing the game with micro transactions.
     
  15. Disquisitor Sam

    Disquisitor Sam Well-Known Member

    Make TF2 Great Again!
     
  16. Juli

    Juli Well-Known Member

    Unless you're DotA2, making your game free to play will singlehandedly destroy its competitive viability. So their thinking was probably something like "making a good game will generate consumer goodwill and a stronger competitive scene, so it will be better in the long run than creating a shitty thing that will make lots of money via microtransactions."
     
  17. vivafringe

    vivafringe Well-Known Member Staff Member

    I dunno about that! Hearthstone/LoL seem to have pretty strong competitive scenes.
     
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  18. Lemon

    Lemon Well-Known Member

    I dunno, hearthstone's competitive scene lost a lot of players to streaming due to the high randomness, and now hearthstone streamers are hemorrhaging into Duelyst (which i highly recommend).
     
  19. Nachtfischer

    Nachtfischer Well-Known Member

    I think at least the big Hearthstone streamers only checked out Duelyst because they got paid by the devs. Also, aren't esports earnings still rising? I haven't noticed the scene dying off or anything.
     
  20. Lemon

    Lemon Well-Known Member

    They were paid to try it, but now some big names like Trump (not Donald) really enjoy the game and do free streams I believe.

    Personally i dont see how anyone who's played both could prefer Hearthstone.
     

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