Beta 1.0 Reactions

Discussion in 'EMPIRE (by Crazy Monkey Studios)' started by Senator, Aug 28, 2013.

  1. keithburgun

    keithburgun Administrator, Lead Designer Staff Member

    Yeah, that may be it...
  2. keithburgun

    keithburgun Administrator, Lead Designer Staff Member

    Here's my list of notes that I'm thinking about for the next version, what do you guys think?

    - Unit costs/restrictions: You can always build Cavalry and Archers for 120 (no longer locked), but building their specific building reduces the cost to 80, 40, and 20 respectively (for your first, second, and third Guard Towers, for instance). Warriors always cost 60.
    - Renaming cities doesn't work - actually, it just doesnt show the correct name under the city. Also, when you start typing a city name it should erase the current one, I shouldn't have to hit backspace 7 times or whatever.
    - Perhaps you can't build units while you're attacking
    - when the player cancels an attack on a monster nest, the nest has a small chance of immediately declaring a counter-attack.
    - Mounted move is way too good. Maybe we should make it "Choose one direction and move two tiles in that direction, +2 damage for this turn". That would be interesting. Then you can also get rid of the current cavalry rule of "if moved".
    - I'd re-word "You can only support 3 cities" on the city upgrade screen. This implies that this number could be expanded somehow, and also suggests to the player that 3 cities isn't very many, with the word "only". Instead do "You can support a max of 3 Cities" or something similar.
    - "Warrior move" card says something about pushing other units around, but it seems that ALL movement cards do this? So I don't think it needs to be stated.
    - "Warrior Reposition" - can we have this card teleport a warrior back to Column 1, on a row of your choice, and get +1 HP? So "Move unit back to first column on a row of your choice and gain 1 HP". This way you can use it creatively in base races OR just to reposition.
    - You should probably be allowed to see what's still in your deck and discard during combat. I realize this might be too much work though.
    - I think we gotta re-work how monsters attacking the player works.
    - Bottom right corner where it shows resource income - if you click on a mineless mountain, it says 6(mine). This isn't as clear as it should be. It should say 0 (No Mine) or something.
    - When you get Purges, should Strifes auto-purge?
    - Minimum distance between cities should be increased by 1 I think
    - Visual issue: The tile that's directly below your city has a tower on it like all the other ones, but this tower is too low. It looks like it's in the mountain tile that's 2 below my city, and it looks like that mountain is being worked.
    - Bug with "play and next turn". Sometimes I hit it and I still had another action and I have to then hit next turn.
    - Retreat doesn't work

  3. Senator

    Senator Moderator

    Can you elaborate on this one? Sounds like it might be the biggest change on the list...

    Re seeing what's in your deck and discard: I'm neutral on this, though being able to see your whole deck, via the same swipe interface as on the main screen, is a no-brainer. Also, I have no idea what half of the combat screen UI elements related to the deck are supposed to mean. The numbers with up and down arrows...? And, for the main deck browser: tapping on any category of card should skip you forward to see that category. One of the main reasons to go into that screen is to purge your strife, but it's at the very end of the deck so you have to scroll all the way through to do it.

    Warrior Reposition: I like the idea of this. It doesn't sound like it would be too overpowered, since Warriors only change ranks via the plodding Move Any, and you could get rid of the healing if it is too badass.

    Cavalry: Pretty lukewarm to the idea of removing the +1 if moved rule, that's pretty important to the character of the Cavalry, I think--especially for a card that basically has them moving forward like a Warrior. (Agree that the double-move Cavalry Move is too powerful, though. The single move was fine, if boring.)

    New unit costs: Sounds fine (with tweaks to the actual numbers as needed). There will be pretty massive difficulties getting enough materials to maximize flexibility now, and city upgrades will be much more important, all of which sounds great. We'll have to see how it plays, though--I suspect that Exploration will soon be something that folks do pretty rarely.

    Not building units while attacking: Assume you mean you can build units while your army is on the march? That seems a bit harsh. But I do think that building a unit should take a turn, and so should declaring an attack.

    Bug with "play and next turn": I can confirm that I've seen the same behavior.

    Renaming cities: Is this renaming feature even necessary? I'd say just let them be random. (Personal taste, perhaps.) Anyway, the game will happily create two cities of the same name in the same game--it shouldn't do that.
    keithburgun likes this.
  4. keithburgun

    keithburgun Administrator, Lead Designer Staff Member

    I kinda think that if you get purges, the game should AUTO PURGE your strife if you have any.

    Oops, meant to erase that "how attacking monsters works". Forget it for now.

    Actions, discards. I know it's unclear. They will be made larger.

    Yeah, nevermind this one.

    I agree we don't need the renaming, but yeah some people might like to name their cities, I guess. I'll push for removing renaming altogether.
  5. Nachtfischer

    Nachtfischer Well-Known Member

    City upgrade bug: Yeah, I went with the Shaman Hut when trying out if the bug still existed. So it might be that it's specifically the HUT that triggers the removal of upgrades somehow.

    Concerning proposed changes

    Seeing what's in your deck and discard: Would be nice to have, but not a top priority.

    Warrior Reposition: Sounds way more useful and interesting than the current ability.

    Cavalry: The "+1 if moved" rule is indeed a bit clunky, but it actually makes sense. I'd keep it, but I agree that the double move might be too strong, though.

    New unit costs: I like it. It will enforce to focus more on minerals and resources, which is still a bit too shallow at the moment, I think.

    Renaming cities: I never rename cities. This is probably a nostalgic element from Civ, where it makes a bit more sense? Because in Civ you have cities for a LONG time (usually for a whole playthrough) and can relate to them a bit more. In Empire however, games are much shorter and cities are explicitly meant to die. So for me, just going with an automated random name would remove one repeatedly unnecessary tap.

    AUTO PURGE strife: Another way to make the game more efficient. Is it ever better to purgea non-strife card if you have strife? I don't think so...
  6. Senator

    Senator Moderator

    I guess if there are people who would be disappointed that they can't rename their cities, there's no reason to get rid of the feature. But it shouldn't be the default assumption that I want to rename my cities--that means extra button presses for folks who just want to get in and play the game (it's worst on pre-iPhone 5 small-screen devices, where the keyboard pops up and blocks the start button, meaning I have to either type something or manually close the keyboard before I can begin). A mobile game should never assume that people want to type where it isn't absolutely necessary.

    Agree on auto-purging, but it needs to be very clear what happened and when.

    Yeah, the actions and discard things in the Combat UI need different icons, or something that explains what they are when you tap on them, or something else--just a size bump won't help.
  7. Bucky

    Bucky Well-Known Member

    I'm not up-to-date on the latest version, so I don't know what effect the economy changes had. But I should point out that these restrictions interact with the materials storage limit; skipping a turn at the limit is a permanent loss of military strength, but saving for a few turns waiting for an upgrade is a cost-saver. Also, it might make policing too easy to attain after multiple upgrades.

    Late game, with monsters constantly spawning, I am attacking every turn. The main thing this does is take the potential disaster that is attacking several nests on the same turn - I was once forced to fight offensively with one unit - and generalizes it to any attacks that are underway simultaneously. I think the net effect is to make double combat outposts mandatory late game because it's one of only two strategies that has reliable access to reinforcements, the other being the insane "never attack".

    Diagonal movement is really important to cavalry because it allows flanking moves. No matter what the special cavalry movement card is, it should allow diagonal movement.

    Multi-move cards are also important because of the rule of 4. But putting it on the same card as cavalry's signature diagonal movement is certainly OP.

    I think we should get rid of the "if moved" and give cavalry 2 base damage.

    On turn 1 or 2, this can be played profitably as a halt with value. The rest of the time, it reads "remove the Warrior from the fight." Which I guess counts as a move for the Rule of 4. I think it's unlikely to work during a base race because Warriors have very little vertical mobility.

    Maybe... details?

    If you have Trash cards, you might want to hold onto the strife for a fight to increase the odds of a good double trash. This is very much a corner case though.

    Why? Exploration changes? Fast-expand openings are already painful and this doesn't really affect much else.
    keithburgun likes this.
  8. keithburgun

    keithburgun Administrator, Lead Designer Staff Member

    I think policing doesn't exist anymore. Only two ways to trash now are with the trash card and the Keep.

    Yeah, it will still allow that. It will be move 2 tiles in ANY direction.

    Regarding the "reworking how monsters attacking the player works, I did some brainstorming and decided that we don't have time to do any kind of major surgery that I had in mind.

    Actually in general, the team wants to get this game as playable as possible this week, so I'm mostly concerned with finding small, doable things we can do to make the game as reasonably balanced as possible for launch.

    Yep, you're right. Nevermind that.
  9. Dasick

    Dasick Well-Known Member

    Out of curiousity, when is Launch Day?
  10. keithburgun

    keithburgun Administrator, Lead Designer Staff Member

    It's a couple months out I think... October I think? But they have a lot of non-game-designy stuff to do between now and then, like the tutorial and such.

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